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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1658
   |
Posted - 2016.11.20 21:49:41 -
[1] - Quote
Amateur-planner megalomania is a thing.
You want to run a democratic group separate from other politics?
Impossible because you're in the same closed environment with no way to keep others out of your territory or out of your group as spais. Any group is part of the bigger picture, it's actually a good thing about eve that 17 guys tearing up a lowsec pipe will develop relationships with groups that are huge and play a part in the ecosystem.
Aaron wanted things done his way and has exploded groups in comedy fireballs repeatedly, losing members to properly and seriously organised neighbours.
Has the US election made you care about politics? In days of old it was seen as a refuge for men unhappily married.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1658
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 23:40:08 -
[2] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Feel free to post my previous threads and try your hardest to ensure nothing happens with this.
Nobody has done a thing to get in your way except you. The thread is not about you and won't be.
OP needs to understand that working outside the corp/alliance/coalition structure has real drawbacks.
"Your way" has to provide for members, there are groups numbering in their thousands out there, they are not losers who give up their identity or freedom. When leadership doesn't enable a stable place to operate from, or provide content for the more passive line members, the group dissolves.
The rest is RP fluff and details.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1658
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 00:53:42 -
[3] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Chopper I'd suggest you leave to OP and myself to think exactly how we want to think.
You don't think maybe it's your advice that would be damaging?
Captain of Titanics 1 to 5?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1663
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Posted - 2016.11.21 11:14:28 -
[4] - Quote
Vigirr wrote:People who WANT to lead rarely are qualified to do so, mostly has to do with low self esteem and illusions of grandeur...
People are more complex than that. Napoleon Bonaparte said that once he'd experienced command he could never take orders again. Nobody argues that he was either a bad leader, an idiot or flawed somehow. His actions changed the genetic makeup of a continent, for a long time he was the archetypal historic 'great man' that drives history and now when people hear his name they think of cognac.
Eve mechanics are simpler and more forgiving than life, what with resources spawning forever and nobody ever dying.
Great thing about Eve is tinpot little dictator types can be quite useful in generating action, while good, smart men get used as stooges for the players behind coups. I'm looking at you BNI 2015.
OP, people set up all sorts of arrangements but the game's limits remain. Democracy requires more of the individual and the organisation than most spaecships pilots are willing to commit.
That link from Remiel is gold, it collapses big important things down into sentences.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1664
|
Posted - 2016.11.21 21:55:49 -
[5] - Quote
Reality is very negative towards the little guy.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1666
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 04:03:29 -
[6] - Quote
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1676
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 15:15:31 -
[7] - Quote
Dietrich Roosevelt wrote:However, at its most basic, the law is enforced by brute force just as it is in real life..
Kinda simplistic there.
You can't afford to play, haven't done much in the game and want to do something new and groundbreaking.
Can you say or point to anything that would inspire confidence in you?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1677
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 23:15:34 -
[8] - Quote
OP writes like Aaron and wants to put a layer of bureaucracy, with another layer of oversight, on top of existing corp/alliance mechanics.
As if running a corp isn't enough of a space job.
Basically: more people in the organisation doing admin in order to reap the wealth (?) of hisec.
"Everyone has been saying that hisec and the four Empires are dying. This simply formalizes that process"
...by setting up an artificial home in the broken egg? Hatching and flying never occurs to people?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1681
|
Posted - 2016.12.03 07:33:52 -
[9] - Quote
Bibosikus wrote:Freedom's have to be balanced. utmost of which being the freedom to have more than one child. While archaic and in some ways cruel the facts are a lower population is sustainable and nature/universe will do it for us in far worse ways if we can't take the hard steps ourselves..
This IRL tangent implies there's ever been any scarcity at all.
The world discards enough to feed itself three times a year, last i heard.
In EvE most resources never see a capsuleer, most asteroids, gas clouds and combat anoms spawn and despawn without ever having a player on grid with them. Moons and data/relic sites are a little more intensively farmed, but just the fact that resources spawn forever and there are no women or children to consider makes New Eden a dreamland of violent contention without any of the misery or grief.
We don't share and only co-operate to meet needs, i still don't see what additional informal organisational layers would add.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1681
|
Posted - 2016.12.03 11:20:58 -
[10] - Quote
Please outline how you own ONE hisec system.
The usual thing for people who live in a lowsec area is to do their thing, smash the weak and any tourists, either blue or join larger more powerful groups as they come and go. Look at alliance history of some of these bads and see how they just get absorbed by the local might within weeks of their arrival. There's no contention, if they get uppity they get their pocos and towers slammed by more caps than they have friends to call and their money is over with.
But the hisec system, how to: stop me going in, docking, PVEing. Surely i could ignore your ownership, because it's in no way real and your ownership doesn't allow you to upgrade the system. How to defend against my Skiff mining "your" roids, my battleship arriving in "your" mission to finish it off and salvage for you, my covops arriving in "your" data/relic. Won't CONCORD defend me if you should get upset and make a bad decision?
TLDR: really need some detail here, yeah ultimate adventure wow much original hype hype hype, but HOW?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1681
|
Posted - 2016.12.03 11:24:21 -
[11] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
He certqinly has great experience in the matter of loose blue orgs, and understands the game/politics etc intimately.
Arguably the primary authority on it.
.
Has made many a thread hyping something that people do everywhere anyway.
Luring a bunch of nerds to null to be your captive market has been done bigger and better and i've been part of it on both sides.
Need more detail.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1684
|
Posted - 2016.12.03 22:20:47 -
[12] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
We will ofc work with CODE on our island..
See? Before day one you're cosying up to the local power.
This is how things are done.
One of you will end up servant to the other.
But hey, anything but "get out of hisec", right?
Brave Newbies grew out of hisec, then lowsec. Sure their "sov" was basically an arrangement to provide a safari park for pvp groups stuck in a cosmic urinal of NAPs, but they grew into that.
Do some arithmetic, hisec doesn't yield enough isk to make suicide attacks on skiffs feasible. Even garbage tier npc null systems will allow you to kill strangers without losing your ships. A single t1 cruiser can burn down a tanked procurer in null and live to kill again. Good luck enforcing like that in hisec.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Far Beyond Triggered
1687
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Posted - 2016.12.05 02:28:32 -
[13] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
-It will be based on enlightened self-interest of all parties involved, and ruthless aggression in all forms against those that arent.
... but might is always right, and its very hard to argue with profit, conquest and success....
-Diplomacy is a function of understanding the interests, strengths and weaknesses of everyone around you, and exploiting them.
It is misunderstood as a gentleman arrangement. It is not. Its just a pretence and formality that can be dispensed with by force and influence.....
Diplomacy is a function of understanding and exploiting people?
Might is always right? So there's no such thing as ethics?
This """tough""" edgy nonsense doesn't last under any kind of pressure.
LOL put down the Ayn Rand and get out of hisec.
Dietrich Roosevelt wrote:I have created a simple forum at http://government.boards.net/
If you are interested in this project, please join the forum and post your ideas. If you would like to comment on the project or offer ideas without going so far as to join, please feel free to add to this thread. Criticism is welcome, but please keep non-constructive criticism in this thread.
Effectively creating an echo chamber to avoid having to provide any details... We're going to own a part of hisec, it's going to be great, it's okay to be a douche, people want to know how we're going to do this and we're going to be the best at it, it's going to be huge!
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Far Beyond Triggered
1687
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Posted - 2016.12.05 04:54:36 -
[14] - Quote
OK i'm out, you've chased me away with your huge plans and no clues.
All relevant groups in EvE run on ethics every day, all scams and betrayal start with trust earned.
People who think EvE (or nullsec) is a hell of bullying are just showing how little they've done.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Chopper Rollins
Far Beyond Triggered
1690
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Posted - 2016.12.05 10:50:07 -
[15] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:"Might is right", is furthermore in and of itself an ethical paradigm
It's a nihilistic disposal of all ethics.
I know i said i was out but it's this sort of baby-talk that discourages me from talking about politics in general.
There's so much more complexity to the EvE political landscape, all this post-Hobbesian twaddle is all the sillier coming from people who've never run a corp, put up a tower or wasted an afk miner.
"ethics and trust are based ultimately on self-interest." again, a great armchair simplification that will steer you directly onto the rocks should you use it to navigate.
Go, go start a group in pixel spaceships and see if people don't have your number within a month. Leadership provides support and content, the rest of your shallow reflections on human nature don't count.
Get back to this thread with some detail.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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